Religious discussion 42
Here again this picture shows many types of religions, so sometimes is hard for some people to decide which religion is the right one.
Welcome to our hub (42), Religious discussions two
This is another religious article that is being written to continue our discussions on all sorts of religious issues, we believe that it is necessary to widen our base; therefore, we are going to bring other people to discuss some of those issues because we believe that a group discussion may be helpful.
As you know already, in our last article we have outlined a few things about the need to discuss the religions problems that exist today, because there are many things that need to be looked at, and then, we might be able to suggest a solution, if we are able to find one; therefore, we have invited a few religious friends to have a friendly chat or discussions about these religious issues.
So, let these friendly discussions begin by informing our friends what I would like to talk about today at this meeting.
My dear friends at this meeting today I have something important to tell you, you see, it looks like that I may need your help, in order to do what I would like to do, so let me briefly explain. As you all know already I am writing these religious articles and because these religious issues in them are so complex I would like to ask you to help me find the right solutions. You see, I wish that with our help we could come up with a solution to today’s religious problems, or at least a suggestion about which way to go, so the knowledge of each and every one of you/us could be very useful to say the least, this is the main reason why I have invited you to come together at my place.
Now that we are here I invite you to discuss our religious beliefs and I ask you not to hold back on anything that comes to your mind, because you and I are here to find and perhaps suggest new ways of dealing with this very old religious problem, as you can see in our last article if you have followed our religious writings we have said that we are trying to come up with a suggestion of how to overcome these religious problems, and also a way on how to discuss religious issues without upsetting religious people if possible, therefore we need to do it in such a way that would not upset religious people.
Therefore now, I would like to ask you to have your say, if you would like to take part in this undertaking and talk about existing religions and what they mean to you? Therefore I would be asking you in turn to have your say if you are taking part in these religious discussions. We know that some of you don’t know what to say today, but perhaps later on you want to say what could be on your mind.
Anyhow today to begin with I have already asked my dear friend Mark to have something ready to say to you all, so that these religious discussions may really begin. So, Mark please let we hear what you have to say?
Mark opening speech
My dear friends, I don’t really know how to start with, but first of all I need to say that I feel honoured to be the first to be invited to speak to you about religions.
So, today we have to speak about all sorts of religions and what we think about them, I have to say that with so many religions around it is hard to start in any ways; here I have also to say that although I know a bit about religions from some reading I have done a while ago, I have reason to believe that I don’t really know enough to positively assure you that what I am going to say next is right or not, it is just the way I see religions, and you have to accept it as it is, as it is just a way of how I see religions today, perhaps tomorrow I may have to change my views and beliefs, who knows?
In order to start these religious speech I have chosen only a few of the main religions that I am going to talk about; but first of all I have to say that religions for us humans are necessary, as we feel this in-borne need to belong to some sort of religions, because we have always felt the need to believe in something supernatural that would or could help us when we feel unable to cope with something that is or seems to be stronger than ourselves.
Having said that, now let us see how some of the main religions have set themselves up, in order to achieve that and be able to explain to their people their religious beliefs. Anyhow in my speech here I am going to be brief and therefore I am only talking about the main beliefs and from where they seem to have started. As we all know, or perhaps I should say that we all should know that the most important two religions of the world today are: The religions that come from the Bible and Hinduism, which have split and evolved into several other religions, of course there are other religions also but we could say that they are a minority, and there are of course the old pagan religions that no longer exist.
Now, let us start with Hinduism
I am starting with the Indus religions just because it is believed that they are the first to be written in a text, or they were written in bits and pieces first as usually happens, and then later on they would be put together and become a written text.
One of these Indian religious books is The Laws of Manu; in this book The Laws of Manu it is explained in a nutshell that an ever existing force or energies has always existed, in the great darkness that existed before the world was born; this Self existing force or energy called (Svayambhu or something like that.) These existing energies were so complex that they were/are unknowable and unfathomable, anyhow this field or force of energy in the beginning seeded an egg and this egg became Brahman the progenitor of the whole world, Brahman split in two and created the world as we know it. Of course there is a lot more to this great Indus religion, specially how the people and the different cast were born, and we will come back to discuss it another day, but this is somehow how the Hinduism was started.
As I said in the beginning we will be talking only about the very main parts of religions in a nutshell, because every religion has a never ending story to tell, and also Hinduism is a very complex religion; for instance, if we want to find out and write the names of those Indus religions and their gods, it would fill many pages.
Anyhow, another of these religions that came from these Indus religions is Buddhism; at the beginning it was part of this Indus religions, but Budda set it up in a more advanced way, Budda is born in a royal family in 624 BC so he is a prince, he was named Siddhartha, he was born with his own destiny, as he was going to be the one that knows everything, the enlightened one and the founder of the Buddhism.
Today one of the best known religious leaders of Buddhism is the Tibetan Dalai Lama. There is a lot more to say about this religion, but this has got to do for the moment, because we would like to talk about the other religions.
Paganism was the old western religions
The pagan gods
Before Christianity, while in Asia Hinduism was one of the most important religions and it is still today; in Europe in those old times was paganism with their pagan’s gods. Some people say that in the beginning of paganism, it seems that one of the oldest and most powerful gods was Saturn. (But there is a lot more to say about this religion and how it starts in the very beginning of the world, there is a hub in hub pages explaining all this, check it out with this link, hub.me/agotI ). But now let us go back to talk about this god Saturn, this god Saturn had three sons and they replaced Saturn: the first son of Saturn was Jupiter who became king of the gods who lived on Mount Olympus Greece, the second one was Neptune who was king of the seas, and the third was Pluto king of the underworld or the dead. There were lots of other gods, goddesses like Apollo the sun god, Mars the war god Eros and Venus the gods of love and many gods and demigods and others that filled the void of any supernatural beliefs. But I believe that it would be better for me to come back another time to talk about them? Or perhaps just we have to let them be the way they are, since these Gods have been replaced with a new and very powerful God in the western world, called by some believer Yahweh and from others Allah, these religions form the main part of the western world religions.
Today western world religions
Most of the western world religions as we know them today start with Abraham and the Bible. The Bible in reality is a history and religious book of the Jews. Most of us believe, or have been thought to believe that the Bible is the written word of the living God, as God has spoken through his prophets, at least this is how we have been told and most religious people believe to be true.
Anyhow Abraham had many children, even though he had none until he was very old, his first son was Ishmael, born from his handmaiden Hagar, and then he had Isaac from his very old wife Sarah. You can check this story in the Bible Genesis www.catholic.org/bible/
But this is not all and I quote from what I have found in the Internet: (and I quote),
Also, Abraham had six other sons besides Ishmael and Isaac through his wife Keturah whom he married after Sarah died. "Now Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2And she bore to him Zimran and Jokshan and Medan and Midian and Ishbak and Shuah." (Gen. 25:1-2). Obviously, this was known by the writers of Genesis as well as Hebrews and Galatians. (End of quote) So, even then Abraham became the father of many nations, through his many children.
As most of us know the Bible starts with the book of Genesis, and it starts with God creating the world, and from there it tells us briefly what happens from the creation of the world to the times of Abraham; and from Abraham the history of the Jews begins. In a nutshell the Jews become slaves of the powerful Egyptian king, they cry to their God to help them, and God delivers them from the Egyptians with the help of their leader Moses, who has met God on Mount Sinai in the form of a burning bush, this burning bush talked to Moses and said that his name was Yahweh (which laterally means, I am who I am) the God of Abraham and he wanted to deliver his people from the Egyptian Faeroes. So, God then told Moses to go back to Egypt and help rescue his people.
After a long argument with the Egyptian Faeroes with the help of Yahweh Moses succeeds in freeing the Jews from the Egyptian Faeroes and they leave Egypt to go to the Promised Land. In the way to the Promised Land the Jews don’t do what Yahweh their God wants then to do and believe; and Yahweh punishes them by making them stay for forty years in the desert, that is until all those who did not believe in Yahweh their God were dead, also Moses dies before they reach the Promised Land, so the Jews reach the Promised Land under their new leader Joshua and other leaders that followed.
In the end the Jews have reached the Promised Land and stay there for a very long time under various leaders the most known and mentioned even these days are Salomon and David. In the Bible through his prophets Yahweh promises the Jews that from the line of David will be born a man with great powers and he will be the messiah to the Jews and the world, this great man will let the world know about everything that there is to know about religions and lead the world.
So, the messiah is born in the form of our Lord Jesus Christ at the time when the Promised Land is occupied from the Romans; the Jews hope and believe that the messiah is going to be their king and be able to deliver them from the Romans that were occupying their Promised Land. But when they saw that Jesus Christ was not what they wanted him to be, they found a way how to eliminate him by crucifying him with the help of the Romans. But the follower of Jesus Christ continued to believe in Jesus Christ and thus a new religious era was born, Christianity. At the same time the Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah and continued in believing God in the same old ways of their religious order.
There are many Christian religions
Christianity is a general name that includes many religions; they all come from The New Testament of Bible, and they all believe in our lord Jesus Christ.
So, as we can see Christianity is a modified continuation of the religious laws and beliefs of Abraham and Moses, that after the death of Jesus Christ and many other happenings it split away from the Jewish beliefs and became another religion in its own rights, or perhaps we should say that it formed a few religious groups that today are known as Christianity. Of course Christianity took a long time to become the main religion of the western world as we all know, because at the beginning it was not accepted and many people died martyrs just because they believed in this new religious order of Christianity, history is full of many prosecutions that the new Christian had to endure before they became accepted as a religious order. There are reasons to believe that Christianity became accepted under the Roman emperor Constantine the great early in the fourth century AD. Emperor Constantine was the first Roman emperor that converted to Christianity.
Christianity nowadays has got several orders like the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and many others. As we can see all these religions have come from the Bible, and one can go on talking about these religions for a long time, if one has to explain them better, So, I better stop talking about them now, as there is another main religion that I would like to talk about now, which is the Islamic religion.
There are reasons to believe that the Koran also comes from the Bible, and even though today we (the western world) seem to be so far away from our supposed to be brothers Muslims the fact remains that they are descended of Ishmael first son of Abraham and Hagar the Egyptian maidservant, then Abraham had his second son was Isaac with his wife Sarah: These two are the most important children of Abraham, and therefore we can say that through Abraham we are brothers with the Muslims.
Now, I would like to say that we should really try at least to read some of the Koran, so that we might be able to understand what these Muslims are talking about. Therefore we need to put aside those extremists fanatic that in their twisted way seem to think that they need to kill those that do not follow their religion.
Anyhow, I have read part of the Koran and it seems to me that God is the same God of Abraham, and it says so many times God himself in the Koran, the only difference is that here they call their God Allah instead of Yahweh, and have also many different laws compared to our Christian religious laws that were modified with the coming of Jesus Christ. It seems to me that the Moslems also modified the Bible, but it was modified in a different way, as they reject most of the new ways of Jesus Christ, but retain most of the old ways of The Old Testament. So, here we can say that even if we are brothers with the Moslems through Abraham, at the same time we are not, since we have different beliefs and we go in different direction; anyhow we still need to learn a lot more before we pass our own judgment on this religion?
(Writer comment) So hereunder is a link that might take you to the Koran, let us hope it works in hub pages.
Mark speech conclusions
I need to say that there are a lot more religions in the world today which have come from different civilizations, and we could go on and make a list of them all and it will be a long list. Anyhow here and now, our task is to find which one is the most suitable to use, or to make up another religion capable of satisfying the human need for religions. As I have already said before, Man needs God. And I have also said that God is hope for those who need hope most.
That is all I want to say now, as my speech has been too long and some of you wonder when I am going to stop. Thanks for listening anyhow.
Frank (me the writer) short comment
At the end of Mark speech we all were congratulating Mark and saying that he knew more than most of us about religions, and that we surely would reflect on what he had said: I said I am sure that our friends here are going to discuss a lot more about religions because of what you said, so let us see what they are going to argue about soon. Look over there, I see our friend Gino looking at John as if he wants to speak to him, perhaps he is going to have a good interesting chat with him presently. We might even have a laugh Ha, ha, ha.
My dear readers, let us postpone what Gino and John are going to argue about for next article, because I believe that we have said enough in this hub. But, let me say briefly what sort of conclusion we can find in Mark speech. The only conclusion that I can see, is that there is no conclusion at all, because religions are very complex and we are going to need a lot of time to sort them out, if we have the courage and strength to continue to look for a solution.
Dear readers, this is not the end of the meeting and if you would like to see what happened next at the end of Mark speech you have to wait when we post our next hub; Religious discussions three.
May God bless us all?